Steve, 36, Manchester
Occupation Call centre technical support
Voting record Labour, then Conservative and most recently Reform. Says he’s “probably slightly right of centre”
Amuse bouche A motorbike accident when he was 17 left Steve technically dead for a minute or two and in a coma for about 10 days. “I slept through the hard bit and woke up well rested”
Gavin, 36, Manchester
Occupation Consultancy, and teaching forest school
Voting record Always Labour. Describes himself as “quite left”
Amuse bouche Gavin and his husband’s wedding was almost ruined when the venue was double-booked with an Irish festival. But in the end they got a free wedding and a free magician thrown in
For starters
Steve The first thing was burrata. Not for me, I was not prepared for that texture! Then we had steaks. I had a Coke, but moved on to beer at the end.
Gavin I had soda water because I don’t drink and don’t really like soft drinks.
Steve He’s from Wales, I lived there for a bit, so we discussed that. He’s further left than me, but not insanely left.
Gavin We’re the same age, and grew up in rural, non-diverse communities, then moved to Manchester.
The big beef
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Steve Gavin is very anti-Trump. I think he’s fine and will be viewed historically as a middling president. He’s brash, and I understand why people don’t like him, but I would have been surprised if he’d lost the election because the last four years have been pretty bad, with rising inflation. Kamala wasn’t elected, they just put her in, which left a sour taste.
Gavin I don’t like Trump’s track record on LGBTQ and trans rights. He’s dangerous in what he says: in a recent speech he referred to an openly gay news anchor using a female name, and then laughed. It emboldens people to follow that hate. I wouldn’t feel safe to visit America when he’s in office.
Steve Trump is a deal-maker with a business mindset, and that resulted in a good economy until the end – you can’t blame him for Covid. When they talk about his lies, I think: “Oh no, politician lying, stop the presses! They all do!” The 6 January thing was a bit overblown, it wasn’t as bad as people made out. His foreign policy left a bit to be desired, but he was a rare president who didn’t start a new war.
Gavin In a weird way, I’m not worried about Trump starting wars: he seems to focus more on America. But he lies and contradicts himself. It’s insane that any convicted felon is in politics. And putting RFK Jr, a vaccine sceptic, in charge of health!
Sharing plate
Steve We discussed children on screens and what it does developmentally. I’ve seen a five-year-old bought GTA 5 – that’s not appropriate.
Gavin We kind of agreed that the government doesn’t always spend money in the right way. But his view was that things should be privatised because governments aren’t very good at organising things. That’s their only job: that’s what they should be doing.
For afters
Steve Freedom of speech needs to be protected. When you get to hate speech laws and hate crimes, you start putting legal limits on subjective points. People have been arrested for Facebook posts and jokes. Law needs to be based on hard facts where there’s not much room for interpretation. Theft is easy: you stole this, here is your sentence. If you ban the BNP or Tommy Robinson, it goes underground and festers. If you get them out in the sunlight with a discussion, you might change minds.
Gavin I don’t disagree that it’s difficult, but hate speech about a marginalised community is not OK in my opinion. It should be policed. Even in Manchester my husband and I experience homophobic abuse. This may sound rude, but Steve seems sheltered. For example, he doesn’t think there needs to be a gay village, because gay people can go anywhere. I said: “That’s great if everybody’s lovely like you, Steve, but not everybody is.”
Takeaways
Steve The world is increasingly divided. The way to bring us together is with conversation, not screaming and calling each other evil. We were respectful, and when we disagreed, we tried to see where the other was coming from.
Gavin He’s the kind of person I might meet, but after a few minutes I’d make my excuses and leave. So it was interesting to have time to talk to him about his life; it helped me understand how he’s got to those viewpoints.
Additional reporting: Kitty Drake
Gavin and Steve ate at Cicchetti in Manchester.
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